Conversations with Paddy: Traditional Short Story Publishing

Patrick Pillars and I chat back and forth quite a bit via twitter and our blogs about writing and publishing, and recently we’ve been talking a lot about traditional short story publishing. Like me, and a lot of other people we know, Pat has been attempting to publish his short stories the old fashioned way, with little to no luck. Now, one might argue that the quality of our work is lacking, and that is why we don’t get accepted more often, or that we just need to keep on keeping on if we want to leave a lasting mark, but publishing in magazines and journals over the years has left me feeling a little jaded.

One of the pitfalls of publishing short stories is that rarely, if ever, do you receive editorial feedback. About 95% of the time you get a polite, stock rejection letter thanking you for considering them, but they have no use for your work at this time. Usually they wish you luck placing your story elsewhere, and encourage you to consider them again in the future.

Since most experienced writers spend a lot of time reading, you can imagine how much time and money we spend on magazines and journals both within and outside of our preferred genres every week. We do our homework because we want to: 1. Get an idea of what kind of work these rags are publishing and 2. Try to step a tad outside of the box so we’re not submitting the same ole same ole and getting rejected because our work is too commonplace.

For years, I played that game. I will probably continue to play it because I believe in my work, and want to share it with readers. On the other hand, traditional publishing has obviously been turned on its ear recently because of how easy it is to sell one’s work on the Internet, bypassing the editorial games and going directly to the readers with our content.

I used to joke with a group of writer friends that I wanted to change my name to something like Joyce Carol Gaiman just to catch eyes, because after getting rejected repeatedly from major magazines, the upcoming issues were always chock full of major players like Joyce Carol Oates, Neil Gaiman and others. And don’t get me wrong, I love Neil Gaiman’s work. Joyce Carol Oates is an inspiration, but breaking the mold as a new author is downright impossible when editors jump on major players time and again, bypassing newer and upcoming authors.

As with any creative endeavor, we all have to pay our dues. So don’t take this blog as a whine and cheese fest saying boohoo, it’s not fair I don’t get published. I’ve been published in a handful of magazines and journals, so it’s not that I don’t think they have merit. The thing is, as a reader, most magazines are publishing mediocre work we’ve all seen again and again, relying on the same authors all too often.

In essence, the same old stuff over and over again gets tired, so as readers we start seeking other alternatives. We buy eReaders or Kindles, start browsing Amazon or Smashwords for $.99 short stories, rather than dropping $5-7 on a magazine with maybe one good story in it. Magazine sales drop, putting the publisher in jeopardy, and one by one, the magazines go out of business.

The thing is, I enjoy reading magazines for the most part, but as a reader and a writer, the lack of representation for new and upcoming authors is off-putting. Is it too late? Maybe. More fiction magazines seem to be going under these days, and they have no one to blame but themselves. As authors, we have more opportunities now to publish online, than we do through more traditional mediums, which means potentially, readers will be looking for fiction elsewhere.

As a reader, I don’t feel bad for looking elsewhere, and as a writer, I feel better having more control over my successes. It’s harder work, but at least I know I’m getting my work out there.

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  1. I used to be a big fan of magazines, especially the literary kind. But as I’ve gotten older, the less relevant they’ve become. This really does have to do with the fact the content is often “obsolete” by the time you get them. The internet has destroyed the “monthly” because so much information is poured out “live” every day.

    Short story focused ‘zines are in the same mess. Since it’s becoming more and more expensive and fewer readers are there, they have to go after “known” authors to keep the punters interested in actually buying their product. Thus, it’s very difficult to find a traditional ‘zine that’s doing something avant garde or taking risks.

    I think smashwords and podiofiction is where the majority of short stories are going to end up. For sale, that is. Either that or in online zines. Since there are fewer and fewer paying outlets interested in short fiction, a new market is going to evolve. And perhaps the smashwords outlet is exactly where it’s going to go.

  2. Y’know, it’s not even really harder work. Think about how long you spend on just one submission – probably as long as you spend putting together an ebook, aside from the cover. After you’ve figured out the initial quirks, publishing to Smashwords and Kindle is simplicity itself.

    Sure, on the rare occasions where a story gets picked up, you get some readers, but most of these magazines have limited circulations. And the odds are tremendous against anyone reading your story in the magazine and then spreading the news by word of mouth. On the other hand, as you build even a small network of people using social media, if a handful of them buy it and like it, they will spread the word. And buying is so cheap and easy.

    Last week, I published a collection of three humorous shorts and in a few weeks, I’ll publish a collection of three horror shorts. After the second one is out, I will get to work promoting them. The prospect of spending tens of hours preparing short story submissions as opposed to spending that time trying to spread the word does not appeal to me. That’s not to say I will never submit a short story again or that I believe e-pub/self-pub is the answer to everything. But as you’ve noted, there simply is no good reason to remain stuck in doing things only one way, just because that’s the way it’s traditionally been done.

  3. Patrick says:

    A quick note. I have published a couple of shorts way back, small press for zero pay, haven’t broke into the pay market..yet(after many yrs). I have published poetry since the 80′s for everything from zero to $50 a shot. Not a big deal either way. I am not looking for credit or big bucks. I want to crack a mag like Asimov’s because I have been a fan for 30yrs, and for that matter any of the big mags. I am a fan.

    As a fan I have been disappointed in the lack of quality stories of late. That is my opinion sure. But if I am going to pay $8 and get crap when I can go online and pay a fraction of that and get good, quality stories, then that is what I am going to do. It is all about the quality, not the price, at least for me. I am willing to pay, and I think most people will, but burn me a few times and I will look elsewhere. It is a whole lot easier to take a chance for a couple of bucks then to shell out $8.

    The question remains, are my stories good enough? I don’t know. I do know I will keep plugging away at the old model and I just may try some new ideas too. I am too much of a traditionalist to give up on the old way, but I think I am flexible enough to try something new.

    I like the opportunities out there. I may just give it a go.

  4. JohnB says:

    One question I have as a fledging to this world of publishing in general is: are there any magazines/ journals left out there that do break the mold? If so, who are they?

    Your post reminds me that the mediocrity that you speak of is not limited to short stories, but all forms of media. But then I state the obvious.

  5. jenny says:

    There are a lot of new magazines and journals that come out all the time, and it’s hit or miss. Most of the ones that are innovative and willing to try something new pay much less than traditional markets. A lot of zines are moving online now, and there are some good paying markets online. The whole market changes so fast, so regularly now that investing in the writer’s market is better done online. There are also other really great and update market tracking sites you can use too, to check for magazines and journals, both on and offline, and get their submissions guidelines and statistics.

  6. [...] friend, Jennifer Hudock of The Inner Bean, published a great article on traditional print media and e-publishing that you [...]

  7. Chivalrybean says:

    I’ve published a PDF on my website *ding* and had a number of sales (hey, 1 is a number {:0p) but I just put it out, haven’t done a whole lot of promotion yet, so I can’t complain about sales.

    I want to know the price points. Is $2 too much for a 3300 word story, or is $1 a fairer price? Does the quality of the story enter the price? Obviously we don’t want to sell rubbish, but how would to gauge that?

    Setting up for an eBook for Kindle or Smashwords isn’t hard, at least of you aren’t trying to be too picky like me. I haven’t finished the process yet. I made my PDF very presentable for the printed page (I hope) if someone wanted to print it, but it isn’t translating to the Kindle format. I might just need to let it go. Of course, maybe people will buy directly from my site if they know they’ll get a better formatted (IMO) document.

    Don’t forget you can also submit to podcasts too like The Drabblecast and Pseudopod, just as an FYI. I’ve been rejected from one of those too, also without editorial advice, though. But if one does get picked up, you get listeners who are already geared towards social media.

  8. jenny says:

    Hey, I think i was that sale. :D In truth, because the market is so competitive, you should take a look at what other independent authors are doing and charging. For me personally, I charge $.99 for short stories, and the one novella I published, which came in just around 12,000 words, went up for $1.99. If you are saving your document as a PDF before you try to upload to Amazon for the Kindle, the formatting will be off. You might try saving as a .doc file and previewing that instead.

    As for the quality of the story dictating the price, I would really hope that as authors we feel the quality of the story itself is up to par before we tried to sell it to anyone. I guess in theory, I’m thinking if I sold just 200 copies of my story over a year’s time, I would earn as much as I would if i had sold that story to a traditional short story publisher. Will I sell 200 copes of each story? It’s hard to say, but I have hope and I’m incredibly patient.

  9. Chivalrybean says:

    Jenny, you were that sale {:0)

    I can format it pretty ok, but I can’t make it look like the PDF, only plain text and the scene break graphics.

  10. Patrick says:

    To be quick. I am all for pounding my head against the wall and to keep trying. I have been doing it for a long time. But the allure of new ideas is tempting, so much so that I believe it is worth a shot.

    If anything, I have become more persistent and not discouraged at all. I am not giving up. Heck I am really not complaining except for one small eye opening thing.

    If I pay $8 for a mag and dont like a single story, at all, and I can pay a couple bucks and get one very good story, well then.. I am smart enough to know how not to get burned more then once or twice. Its a process.

  11. so this is what becomes of darwanism

  12. Excellent. Thanks so much for the post. -Kate

  13. Michelle says:

    I used to be a big fan of magazines, especially the literary kind. But as I’ve gotten older, the less relevant they’ve become. This really does have to do with the fact the content is often “obsolete” by the time you get them. The internet has destroyed the “monthly” because so much information is poured out “live” every day.

    Short story focused ‘zines are in the same mess. Since it’s becoming more and more expensive and fewer readers are there, they have to go after “known” authors to keep the punters interested in actually buying their product. Thus, it’s very difficult to find a traditional ‘zine that’s doing something avant garde or taking risks.

    I think smashwords and podiofiction is where the majority of short stories are going to end up. For sale, that is. Either that or in online zines. Since there are fewer and fewer paying outlets interested in short fiction, a new market is going to evolve. And perhaps the smashwords outlet is exactly where it’s going to go.

  14. cna training says:

    found your site on del.icio.us today and really liked it.. i bookmarked it and will be back to check it out some more later

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